Comments on: Is God All in the Mind? http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/ books, essays, columns, reviews, and multimedia clips of famed skeptic Michael Shermer Sun, 12 Feb 2012 03:11:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Kyle http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-10689 Kyle Sun, 18 Dec 2011 10:48:48 +0000 http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-10689 I'll admit it gets me excited at first that spiritual visions could be a believe in God but I usually only believe in God to have someone to blame and was no better then the hypocrite Christians. I am just having a hard time letting go of the belief of a God that's in control of our lives since I have had experiences that prove I do not have much free will yet when I ask God for an answer or to show himself I get no response so I just shrug my shoulders and *sigh*. Once in a while it will seem like my prayers get answered but when trying the expeirment again I get no results so obviously it was just flukes when I get what I thought was my prayer answered. I’ll admit it gets me excited at first that spiritual visions could be a believe in God but I usually only believe in God to have someone to blame and was no better then the hypocrite Christians.

I am just having a hard time letting go of the belief of a God that’s in control of our lives since I have had experiences that prove I do not have much free will yet when I ask God for an answer or to show himself I get no response so I just shrug my shoulders and *sigh*.

Once in a while it will seem like my prayers get answered but when trying the expeirment again I get no results so obviously it was just flukes when I get what I thought was my prayer answered.

]]> By: Kyle http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-10688 Kyle Sun, 18 Dec 2011 10:44:07 +0000 http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-10688 I often wonder if spiritual visions are really *divine* or if they are just brain farts in some kind of mechanical error trying to correct itself? In fact: I often wonder if that's why some people see visions more then others is because their brain is busy fixing itself. We obviously have a LOOOOOONG way to go in understanding the brain and the very FIRST thing we need to do is end the political science crap that encourages the *us verses *them* war on mystical/spiritual aspects of science. We need to dust off our ye old bibles/Korans.etc and bring back the guns for self protection from our ever-invasive government to cut out the BS of this world. If the government had to I doubt they could *walk the talk*. I often wonder if spiritual visions are really *divine* or if they are just brain farts in some kind of mechanical error trying to correct itself?

In fact:
I often wonder if that’s why some people see visions more then others is because their brain is busy fixing itself.

We obviously have a LOOOOOONG way to go in understanding the brain and the very FIRST thing we need to do is end the political science crap that encourages the *us verses *them* war on mystical/spiritual aspects of science.

We need to dust off our ye old bibles/Korans.etc and bring back the guns for self protection from our ever-invasive government to cut out the BS of this world.

If the government had to I doubt they could *walk the talk*.

]]> By: John Zeger http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-5440 John Zeger Thu, 16 Dec 2010 05:51:04 +0000 http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-5440 I am grateful to Michael Shermer for his article and Chuck Almdale for his comments. Although I have not reached a definitive conclusion yet, I am on the road towards agreeing with both gentlemen. Like Chuck, I was a forty year mystic who is now reluctantly ready to admit that mystical experiences are only an aberrant functioning of the brain. But, unlike Chuck, I don't regard my adventure with mysticism as having been a waste of time. It has been a fascinating trip and I would rather go to my grave knowing the truth than believing in a delusion. I can think of no better way of spending one's time than in discovering the truth, even if it takes an entire lifetime. I am grateful to Michael Shermer for his article and Chuck Almdale for his comments. Although I have not reached a definitive conclusion yet, I am on the road towards agreeing with both gentlemen. Like Chuck, I was a forty year mystic who is now reluctantly ready to admit that mystical experiences are only an aberrant functioning of the brain. But, unlike Chuck, I don’t regard my adventure with mysticism as having been a waste of time. It has been a fascinating trip and I would rather go to my grave knowing the truth than believing in a delusion. I can think of no better way of spending one’s time than in discovering the truth, even if it takes an entire lifetime.

]]> By: Lee http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-3158 Lee Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:28:45 +0000 http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-3158 God will not leave you but you can leave God by your free-willed second death known as soul death. What will it do to gain the world but lose your soul. Your free-will mind is from God mind, you can make the free-will choice to lose it. Knowing God truth available to all in a very personal direct way can set people free from the bondage of false beliefs, lies, and deceptions. God will not leave you but you can leave God by your free-willed second death known as soul death. What will it do to gain the world but lose your soul. Your free-will mind is from God mind, you can make the free-will choice to lose it. Knowing God truth available to all in a very personal direct way can set people free from the bondage of false beliefs, lies, and deceptions.

]]> By: Stefan http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-2184 Stefan Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:10:03 +0000 http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-2184 Well said, #11. Well said, #11.

]]> By: Lee http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-1410 Lee Thu, 22 May 2008 13:06:03 +0000 http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-1410 The human body/brain machine does not contain the mind, conscious awareness, thinking ability, memory, which are all part of your spirit function. Contrary to conventional science belief, spirit can be tested, proven, and demonstrated. Is God all in your mind? YES, because God Spirit is your mind. You could have a brain transplant and you would still be the same you, you know as you, because the real you is spirit soul (individual spirit self). The human body/brain machine does not contain the mind, conscious awareness, thinking ability, memory, which are all part of your spirit function. Contrary to conventional science belief, spirit can be tested, proven, and demonstrated. Is God all in your mind? YES, because God Spirit is your mind. You could have a brain transplant and you would still be the same you, you know as you, because the real you is spirit soul (individual spirit self).

]]> By: Lee http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-1409 Lee Thu, 22 May 2008 12:51:50 +0000 http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-1409 God won't go away because everyone will cease to exist if he ever does. The secret to eternal life is KNOWING truth. KNOWING truth is the only WAY to eternal LIFE with God. God Truth LAW controls, regulates, and sustains everything. God won’t go away because everyone will cease to exist if he ever does. The secret to eternal life is KNOWING truth. KNOWING truth is the only WAY to eternal LIFE with God. God Truth LAW controls, regulates, and sustains everything.

]]> By: Chuck Almdale http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-1392 Chuck Almdale Wed, 21 May 2008 23:41:13 +0000 http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-1392 Some of the postings in this discussion exemplify the difficulty common to all discussions of the origin/need/excuse/purpose of religion, and where the mystical experience (if any such thing exists) or "flow" as Waldman states above, fits into the puzzle. If you've never had a mystical, or flow, or peak, or unitary (among the many synonyms and near-synonyms available), AND you are not religious, it's inevitable that the mystical experience will be discounted or ignored altogether, and issues of social pressure or family upbring will be seen as sufficient explanations for the existence of religion. If you're religious, such social explanations are rejected. God is the reason! End of discussion. (Please forgive this huge generalization.) The mystical experience may be ignored, accepted, perceived as crucial, or rejected as blasphemous. Our current day is perfect for studying both religion and the mystical experience. We have the tools. We have the scientific outlook. We're unlikely to be burned as witches (recent events in Kenya notwithstanding). Newberg (and Waldman too, apparently) have gone a long way towards rooting out the source of the mystical experience. I am very grateful for their studies, and for the book itself, which brought me to a new understanding of my own mystical experiences. As far as the social, as well as additional physiological factors that have brought about the existence of religion, I highly recommend Pascal Boyer's "Religion Explained." Some of the postings in this discussion exemplify the difficulty common to all discussions of the origin/need/excuse/purpose of religion, and where the mystical experience (if any such thing exists) or “flow” as Waldman states above, fits into the puzzle.

If you’ve never had a mystical, or flow, or peak, or unitary (among the many synonyms and near-synonyms available), AND you are not religious, it’s inevitable that the mystical experience will be discounted or ignored altogether, and issues of social pressure or family upbring will be seen as sufficient explanations for the existence of religion.

If you’re religious, such social explanations are rejected. God is the reason! End of discussion. (Please forgive this huge generalization.) The mystical experience may be ignored, accepted, perceived as crucial, or rejected as blasphemous.

Our current day is perfect for studying both religion and the mystical experience. We have the tools. We have the scientific outlook. We’re unlikely to be burned as witches (recent events in Kenya notwithstanding).

Newberg (and Waldman too, apparently) have gone a long way towards rooting out the source of the mystical experience. I am very grateful for their studies, and for the book itself, which brought me to a new understanding of my own mystical experiences.

As far as the social, as well as additional physiological factors that have brought about the existence of religion, I highly recommend Pascal Boyer’s “Religion Explained.”

]]> By: Mark Waldman http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-1076 Mark Waldman Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:22:50 +0000 http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-1076 P.S.: One more interesting finding in Newberg's brain scan studies. All the meditators had assymetric activity in their thalamus, even when not meditating. Our hypothesis is that intense meditation may permanently alter this sensory/reality/meaning-making structure in the brain. Thus the longer you meditate on "god," or "truth" or "quantum string theory", the more the brain responds to these abstract ideas as though they are objectively real. This is the danger all researchers face: the longer you immerse yourself in the object of your study, the more "real" it will feel to your brain. P.S.: One more interesting finding in Newberg’s brain scan studies. All the meditators had assymetric activity in their thalamus, even when not meditating. Our hypothesis is that intense meditation may permanently alter this sensory/reality/meaning-making structure in the brain. Thus the longer you meditate on “god,” or “truth” or “quantum string theory”, the more the brain responds to these abstract ideas as though they are objectively real. This is the danger all researchers face: the longer you immerse yourself in the object of your study, the more “real” it will feel to your brain.

]]> By: Mark Waldman http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-1075 Mark Waldman Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:18:10 +0000 http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-1075 Newberg found that activity in the parietal lobe (the orientation/association area) decreases after 45 minutes of intense meditation (in both buddhists, and nuns, by the way). This part of the brain generates our sense of "self" in relation to other objects in the world. So, for a brief period of time, that sense of self weakens. However actvity in the frontal lobe (where logic, reason, intention, language, and social awareness take place)increases. Thus, you feel at one with whatever you're contemplating. The psychology researcher Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi describes this as flow. It is similar to losing yourself in a game, or a good book. The meditator looses him/herself in the object of contemplation: god, peace, or even money. Thus peace becomes more real or intense. Money becomes perceived as everything. But the state does not last. Thus, throughout the day, we are always altering our sense of reality to everything. It's not delusional--it's just a spectrum of self/object/thought/world emphasis. Can you get lost in the sense of God, or the transcendent? Yes, but the brain always returns to baseline. The real benefit of meditation lies in the permanent increased activity Newberg, Davidson, Benson, Kabat-Zinn and others are finding in the meditator's frontal lobe, the anterior cingulate (social awareness), and the basal ganglia. The anterior cingulate and basal ganglia suppress activity in the amygdala and other parts of the brain that generate fear, anxiety, irritability, and the release of stress neurochemicals. Thus Newberg's recent research has documented why meditation improves neurological health. His most recent study shows that meditation also enhances memory in people who have only practiced 12 minutes per day for 8 weeks. The findings will be published this fall, and reported in his next book, How God Changes Your Brain. For the record, I'm sure I have a positive cognitive bias toward Newberg's research since I am a co-researcher and co-author with him. Newberg found that activity in the parietal lobe (the orientation/association area) decreases after 45 minutes of intense meditation (in both buddhists, and nuns, by the way). This part of the brain generates our sense of “self” in relation to other objects in the world. So, for a brief period of time, that sense of self weakens. However actvity in the frontal lobe (where logic, reason, intention, language, and social awareness take place)increases. Thus, you feel at one with whatever you’re contemplating. The psychology researcher Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi describes this as flow. It is similar to losing yourself in a game, or a good book. The meditator looses him/herself in the object of contemplation: god, peace, or even money. Thus peace becomes more real or intense. Money becomes perceived as everything.

But the state does not last. Thus, throughout the day, we are always altering our sense of reality to everything. It’s not delusional–it’s just a spectrum of self/object/thought/world emphasis. Can you get lost in the sense of God, or the transcendent? Yes, but the brain always returns to baseline. The real benefit of meditation lies in the permanent increased activity Newberg, Davidson, Benson, Kabat-Zinn and others are finding in the meditator’s frontal lobe, the anterior cingulate (social awareness), and the basal ganglia. The anterior cingulate and basal ganglia suppress activity in the amygdala and other parts of the brain that generate fear, anxiety, irritability, and the release of stress neurochemicals. Thus Newberg’s recent research has documented why meditation improves neurological health. His most recent study shows that meditation also enhances memory in people who have only practiced 12 minutes per day for 8 weeks. The findings will be published this fall, and reported in his next book, How God Changes Your Brain.

For the record, I’m sure I have a positive cognitive bias toward Newberg’s research since I am a co-researcher and co-author with him.

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