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	<title>Comments on: Is God All in the Mind?</title>
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	<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/</link>
	<description>books, essays, columns, reviews, and multimedia clips of famed skeptic Michael Shermer</description>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-3158</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-3158</guid>
		<description>God will not leave you but you can leave God by your free-willed second death known as soul death.  What will it do to gain the world but lose your soul.  Your free-will mind is from God mind, you can make the free-will choice to lose it.  Knowing God truth available to all in a very personal direct way can set people free from the bondage of false beliefs, lies, and deceptions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God will not leave you but you can leave God by your free-willed second death known as soul death.  What will it do to gain the world but lose your soul.  Your free-will mind is from God mind, you can make the free-will choice to lose it.  Knowing God truth available to all in a very personal direct way can set people free from the bondage of false beliefs, lies, and deceptions.</p>
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		<title>By: Stefan</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-2184</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-2184</guid>
		<description>Well said, #11.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, #11.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-1410</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 13:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-1410</guid>
		<description>The human body/brain machine does not contain the mind, conscious awareness, thinking ability, memory, which are all part of your spirit function.  Contrary to conventional science belief, spirit can be tested, proven, and demonstrated. Is God all in your mind?  YES, because God Spirit is your mind.  You could have a brain transplant and you would still be the same you, you know as you, because the real you is spirit soul (individual spirit self).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The human body/brain machine does not contain the mind, conscious awareness, thinking ability, memory, which are all part of your spirit function.  Contrary to conventional science belief, spirit can be tested, proven, and demonstrated. Is God all in your mind?  YES, because God Spirit is your mind.  You could have a brain transplant and you would still be the same you, you know as you, because the real you is spirit soul (individual spirit self).</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-1409</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 12:51:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-1409</guid>
		<description>God won&#039;t go away because everyone will cease to exist if he ever does.  The secret to eternal life is KNOWING truth.  KNOWING truth is the only WAY to eternal LIFE with God.  God Truth LAW controls, regulates, and sustains everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God won&#8217;t go away because everyone will cease to exist if he ever does.  The secret to eternal life is KNOWING truth.  KNOWING truth is the only WAY to eternal LIFE with God.  God Truth LAW controls, regulates, and sustains everything.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck Almdale</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-1392</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Almdale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 23:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-1392</guid>
		<description>Some of the postings in this discussion exemplify the difficulty common to all discussions of the origin/need/excuse/purpose of religion, and where the mystical experience (if any such thing exists) or &quot;flow&quot; as Waldman states above, fits into the puzzle.

If you&#039;ve never had a mystical, or flow, or peak, or unitary (among the many synonyms and near-synonyms available), AND you are not religious, it&#039;s inevitable that the mystical experience will be discounted or ignored altogether, and issues of social pressure or family upbring will be seen as sufficient explanations for the existence of religion.

If you&#039;re religious, such social explanations are rejected. God is the reason! End of discussion. (Please forgive this huge generalization.) The mystical experience may be ignored, accepted, perceived as crucial, or rejected as blasphemous.

Our current day is perfect for studying both religion and the mystical experience. We have the tools. We have the scientific outlook. We&#039;re unlikely to be burned as witches (recent events in Kenya notwithstanding).

Newberg (and Waldman too, apparently) have gone a long way towards rooting out the source of the mystical experience. I am very grateful for their studies, and for the book itself, which brought me to a new understanding of my own mystical experiences.

As far as the social, as well as additional physiological factors that have brought about the existence of religion, I highly recommend Pascal Boyer&#039;s &quot;Religion Explained.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of the postings in this discussion exemplify the difficulty common to all discussions of the origin/need/excuse/purpose of religion, and where the mystical experience (if any such thing exists) or &#8220;flow&#8221; as Waldman states above, fits into the puzzle.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;ve never had a mystical, or flow, or peak, or unitary (among the many synonyms and near-synonyms available), AND you are not religious, it&#8217;s inevitable that the mystical experience will be discounted or ignored altogether, and issues of social pressure or family upbring will be seen as sufficient explanations for the existence of religion.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re religious, such social explanations are rejected. God is the reason! End of discussion. (Please forgive this huge generalization.) The mystical experience may be ignored, accepted, perceived as crucial, or rejected as blasphemous.</p>
<p>Our current day is perfect for studying both religion and the mystical experience. We have the tools. We have the scientific outlook. We&#8217;re unlikely to be burned as witches (recent events in Kenya notwithstanding).</p>
<p>Newberg (and Waldman too, apparently) have gone a long way towards rooting out the source of the mystical experience. I am very grateful for their studies, and for the book itself, which brought me to a new understanding of my own mystical experiences.</p>
<p>As far as the social, as well as additional physiological factors that have brought about the existence of religion, I highly recommend Pascal Boyer&#8217;s &#8220;Religion Explained.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Waldman</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-1076</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Waldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-1076</guid>
		<description>P.S.: One more interesting finding in Newberg&#039;s brain scan studies.  All the meditators had assymetric activity in their thalamus, even when not meditating. Our hypothesis is that intense meditation may permanently alter this sensory/reality/meaning-making structure in the brain. Thus the longer you meditate on &quot;god,&quot; or &quot;truth&quot; or &quot;quantum string theory&quot;, the more the brain responds to these abstract ideas as though they are objectively real.  This is the danger all researchers face: the longer you immerse yourself in the object of your study, the more &quot;real&quot; it will feel to your brain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S.: One more interesting finding in Newberg&#8217;s brain scan studies.  All the meditators had assymetric activity in their thalamus, even when not meditating. Our hypothesis is that intense meditation may permanently alter this sensory/reality/meaning-making structure in the brain. Thus the longer you meditate on &#8220;god,&#8221; or &#8220;truth&#8221; or &#8220;quantum string theory&#8221;, the more the brain responds to these abstract ideas as though they are objectively real.  This is the danger all researchers face: the longer you immerse yourself in the object of your study, the more &#8220;real&#8221; it will feel to your brain.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Waldman</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-1075</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Waldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-1075</guid>
		<description>Newberg found that activity in the parietal lobe (the orientation/association area) decreases after 45 minutes of intense meditation (in both buddhists, and nuns, by the way). This part of the brain generates our sense of &quot;self&quot; in relation to other objects in the world. So, for a brief period of time, that sense of self weakens. However actvity in the frontal lobe (where logic, reason, intention, language, and social awareness take place)increases.  Thus, you feel at one with whatever you&#039;re contemplating. The psychology researcher Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi describes this as flow. It is similar to losing yourself in a game, or a good book.  The meditator looses him/herself in the object of contemplation: god, peace, or even money.  Thus peace becomes more real or intense.  Money becomes perceived as everything. 

But the state does not last.  Thus, throughout the day, we are always altering our sense of reality to everything.  It&#039;s not delusional--it&#039;s just a spectrum of self/object/thought/world emphasis.  Can you get lost in the sense of God, or the transcendent? Yes, but the brain always returns to baseline.  The real benefit of meditation lies in the permanent increased activity Newberg, Davidson, Benson, Kabat-Zinn and others are finding in the meditator&#039;s frontal lobe, the anterior cingulate (social awareness), and the basal ganglia. The anterior cingulate and basal ganglia suppress activity in the amygdala and other parts of the brain that generate fear, anxiety, irritability, and the release of stress neurochemicals.  Thus Newberg&#039;s recent research has documented why meditation improves neurological health. His most recent study shows that meditation also enhances memory in people who have only practiced 12 minutes per day for 8 weeks. The findings will be published this fall, and reported in his next book, How God Changes Your Brain.

For the record, I&#039;m sure I have a positive cognitive bias toward Newberg&#039;s research since I am a co-researcher and co-author with him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Newberg found that activity in the parietal lobe (the orientation/association area) decreases after 45 minutes of intense meditation (in both buddhists, and nuns, by the way). This part of the brain generates our sense of &#8220;self&#8221; in relation to other objects in the world. So, for a brief period of time, that sense of self weakens. However actvity in the frontal lobe (where logic, reason, intention, language, and social awareness take place)increases.  Thus, you feel at one with whatever you&#8217;re contemplating. The psychology researcher Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi describes this as flow. It is similar to losing yourself in a game, or a good book.  The meditator looses him/herself in the object of contemplation: god, peace, or even money.  Thus peace becomes more real or intense.  Money becomes perceived as everything. </p>
<p>But the state does not last.  Thus, throughout the day, we are always altering our sense of reality to everything.  It&#8217;s not delusional&#8211;it&#8217;s just a spectrum of self/object/thought/world emphasis.  Can you get lost in the sense of God, or the transcendent? Yes, but the brain always returns to baseline.  The real benefit of meditation lies in the permanent increased activity Newberg, Davidson, Benson, Kabat-Zinn and others are finding in the meditator&#8217;s frontal lobe, the anterior cingulate (social awareness), and the basal ganglia. The anterior cingulate and basal ganglia suppress activity in the amygdala and other parts of the brain that generate fear, anxiety, irritability, and the release of stress neurochemicals.  Thus Newberg&#8217;s recent research has documented why meditation improves neurological health. His most recent study shows that meditation also enhances memory in people who have only practiced 12 minutes per day for 8 weeks. The findings will be published this fall, and reported in his next book, How God Changes Your Brain.</p>
<p>For the record, I&#8217;m sure I have a positive cognitive bias toward Newberg&#8217;s research since I am a co-researcher and co-author with him.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Fincher</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-1070</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Fincher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 03:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-1070</guid>
		<description>God could exist in a dimension unavailable, but god could also not exist there, even if there is a &quot;there&quot;. Confession is good for the soul, even confession of impenetrable ignorance. Epistemological constipation is evident when we dwell on the nature of god (if there is one). Ex nihilo nihil fit (from nothing nothing comes), Leibnitz. Assigning or even relating knowledge of god to neurophysiology it seems to me to be in violation of the law of parsimony. I suggest it far more likely that purported knowledge of god comes from an entirely explainable facet of human nature. The need to be comforted and the need to exist beyond our natural life. The important socially normative value of having a supernatural parent who rewards and punishes aside, we as a specie revolt at the prospect that this life on earth may be all there is. If it is not, we revolt at the notion that the next life is not defined and indeed may not be guaranteed. Whether or not god exists only in the mind really doesn&#039;t much matter. Our lives are lived through the filter of our minds and in so doing assigns reality. What is real and what is not is relevant only as it affects us personally. This stands in high relief when we choose to define god in anthropomorphic terms with human desires and human needs..the need for subservient worship, a god of love, a god of wrath, etc. Our person-hood needs stroking, rewarding, punishing, and ultimately is of such great value that we need to continue our existence after our earthly life is over. Religion says god is real (outside our mind). It reminds us that there is more yet to come, either good or bad. It pats us on the head and says be good and you&#039;ll get a cookie, but if you&#039;re bad you&#039;ll get a spanking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God could exist in a dimension unavailable, but god could also not exist there, even if there is a &#8220;there&#8221;. Confession is good for the soul, even confession of impenetrable ignorance. Epistemological constipation is evident when we dwell on the nature of god (if there is one). Ex nihilo nihil fit (from nothing nothing comes), Leibnitz. Assigning or even relating knowledge of god to neurophysiology it seems to me to be in violation of the law of parsimony. I suggest it far more likely that purported knowledge of god comes from an entirely explainable facet of human nature. The need to be comforted and the need to exist beyond our natural life. The important socially normative value of having a supernatural parent who rewards and punishes aside, we as a specie revolt at the prospect that this life on earth may be all there is. If it is not, we revolt at the notion that the next life is not defined and indeed may not be guaranteed. Whether or not god exists only in the mind really doesn&#8217;t much matter. Our lives are lived through the filter of our minds and in so doing assigns reality. What is real and what is not is relevant only as it affects us personally. This stands in high relief when we choose to define god in anthropomorphic terms with human desires and human needs..the need for subservient worship, a god of love, a god of wrath, etc. Our person-hood needs stroking, rewarding, punishing, and ultimately is of such great value that we need to continue our existence after our earthly life is over. Religion says god is real (outside our mind). It reminds us that there is more yet to come, either good or bad. It pats us on the head and says be good and you&#8217;ll get a cookie, but if you&#8217;re bad you&#8217;ll get a spanking.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck Almdale</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-989</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Almdale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 02:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-989</guid>
		<description>This discussion continues, to my surprise.

Sean (immediately above) suggests (using my words now, not his) the possibility that God exists in a higher dimension, from which vantage point our entire space-time continuum is spread out to His view, like a road map. He further suggests that this view could explain many interesting cutting-edge phenomena in Physics.

Good point. One I&#039;ve pondered since reading &quot;Flatland&quot; at the age of 10. I&#039;m sure many others have also.

The problems associated with John Bell&#039;s theorem - quantum entanglement, action-at-a-distance - as well as newer problems such as string theory and brane intersection obviously can involve more dimensions than to which we have access. I think such dimensions probably exist, but as yet I haven&#039;t seen any conclusive evidence for it nor has anyone (that I&#039;ve heard of) yet devised a way to test this. Maybe the Large Hadron Collider, coming on line this year, will yield useful data along this line.

Even if these dimensions exist, there&#039;s no reason to assume that they are occupied by sentient being(s) that were/are involved in our meager 4-dimensional space-time lives and universe.

At this juncture, I can only repeat that I remain convinced by my deconversion experience. Human brains, including mine, do funny things. When the Orientation Association Area stops receiving input (deafferation), the personal experience is that of the unification of all space &amp; time &amp; consciousness into a Unitary Whole, and the experiencer is perfectly joined in that unification. Hindu mysticism would express this as &quot;Atman is Brahman&quot; (the personal Soul is identical with the Cosmic Soul&quot;. My additional conjecture is that the brain&#039;s Reality Cognitive Center also &quot;cuts out&quot;, causing the experience to feel absolutely real; actually, if feels &quot;Realer than Real.&quot; It&#039;s like that story about the Chinese sage who dreamed he was a butterfly. The dream was so intense that after awakening, he spent the rest of his life not knowing if he was a Chinese philosopher who had dreamed he was a butterfly, or if he was a butterfly dreaming that he was a Chinese philosopher.

My deconversion realization consisted of recognizing that both the Mystical Unitary Experience and the &quot;Realer than Real&quot; experience are misinterpretations of an unusual psychological experience caused by an unusual and temporary functioning of the brain. This was not a pleasant conclusion to reach, as it forced me to accept that one of the main goals of my life was a pointless exercise in futility. On the positive side, I feel that I&#039;ve gained a certain insight  because I&#039;ve seen - as Joni Mitchell wrote decades ago - &quot;Both Sides Now.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This discussion continues, to my surprise.</p>
<p>Sean (immediately above) suggests (using my words now, not his) the possibility that God exists in a higher dimension, from which vantage point our entire space-time continuum is spread out to His view, like a road map. He further suggests that this view could explain many interesting cutting-edge phenomena in Physics.</p>
<p>Good point. One I&#8217;ve pondered since reading &#8220;Flatland&#8221; at the age of 10. I&#8217;m sure many others have also.</p>
<p>The problems associated with John Bell&#8217;s theorem &#8211; quantum entanglement, action-at-a-distance &#8211; as well as newer problems such as string theory and brane intersection obviously can involve more dimensions than to which we have access. I think such dimensions probably exist, but as yet I haven&#8217;t seen any conclusive evidence for it nor has anyone (that I&#8217;ve heard of) yet devised a way to test this. Maybe the Large Hadron Collider, coming on line this year, will yield useful data along this line.</p>
<p>Even if these dimensions exist, there&#8217;s no reason to assume that they are occupied by sentient being(s) that were/are involved in our meager 4-dimensional space-time lives and universe.</p>
<p>At this juncture, I can only repeat that I remain convinced by my deconversion experience. Human brains, including mine, do funny things. When the Orientation Association Area stops receiving input (deafferation), the personal experience is that of the unification of all space &amp; time &amp; consciousness into a Unitary Whole, and the experiencer is perfectly joined in that unification. Hindu mysticism would express this as &#8220;Atman is Brahman&#8221; (the personal Soul is identical with the Cosmic Soul&#8221;. My additional conjecture is that the brain&#8217;s Reality Cognitive Center also &#8220;cuts out&#8221;, causing the experience to feel absolutely real; actually, if feels &#8220;Realer than Real.&#8221; It&#8217;s like that story about the Chinese sage who dreamed he was a butterfly. The dream was so intense that after awakening, he spent the rest of his life not knowing if he was a Chinese philosopher who had dreamed he was a butterfly, or if he was a butterfly dreaming that he was a Chinese philosopher.</p>
<p>My deconversion realization consisted of recognizing that both the Mystical Unitary Experience and the &#8220;Realer than Real&#8221; experience are misinterpretations of an unusual psychological experience caused by an unusual and temporary functioning of the brain. This was not a pleasant conclusion to reach, as it forced me to accept that one of the main goals of my life was a pointless exercise in futility. On the positive side, I feel that I&#8217;ve gained a certain insight  because I&#8217;ve seen &#8211; as Joni Mitchell wrote decades ago &#8211; &#8220;Both Sides Now.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-885</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 17:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/07/is-god-all-in-the-mind/#comment-885</guid>
		<description>Chuck says &quot; But the mystical experience, like a dream, is caused by the operation of our brain, and by nothing else.&quot;

Just imagine what would happen if a God did exist.  For one thing he would exist one dimension higher than we do, since he literally looks across all time.  And so because of that one can say that there are two different planes of reality.  One, our reality, which is always confined to the present, and the other, his reality, that extends across all time. Events would occur at the point of intersection of these two planes of reality.

Now if this were true, all sorts of weird things would happen since an event at the point of intersection could be governed from either of the two planes of reality.  The results of particle interactions would be different depending on which plane of reality is governing these interactions.  In one case it would be a real time interaction, and from the other it would be circumstances that are present across a certain time period that would determine the outcome of the interaction.  And so there would be two kinds of events.  A Holistic ( cross time ) event, and a Relativistic ( real time ) event.

If there are two kinds of events, then this would lead to all sorts of things such a Particle/Wave behavior, Action at a Distance, Particle Entanglement, Collapse of a Quantum Wave, etc.  Hmmmmm, I could swear I have heard of things somewhere already.   In short, all the questions not yet answered in the field of physics would all be answered in a flash if God&#039;s plane of reality was taken into account.

People might even begin to recognize this mysterious fellow.
See http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm
See http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode_shroud_turin.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chuck says &#8221; But the mystical experience, like a dream, is caused by the operation of our brain, and by nothing else.&#8221;</p>
<p>Just imagine what would happen if a God did exist.  For one thing he would exist one dimension higher than we do, since he literally looks across all time.  And so because of that one can say that there are two different planes of reality.  One, our reality, which is always confined to the present, and the other, his reality, that extends across all time. Events would occur at the point of intersection of these two planes of reality.</p>
<p>Now if this were true, all sorts of weird things would happen since an event at the point of intersection could be governed from either of the two planes of reality.  The results of particle interactions would be different depending on which plane of reality is governing these interactions.  In one case it would be a real time interaction, and from the other it would be circumstances that are present across a certain time period that would determine the outcome of the interaction.  And so there would be two kinds of events.  A Holistic ( cross time ) event, and a Relativistic ( real time ) event.</p>
<p>If there are two kinds of events, then this would lead to all sorts of things such a Particle/Wave behavior, Action at a Distance, Particle Entanglement, Collapse of a Quantum Wave, etc.  Hmmmmm, I could swear I have heard of things somewhere already.   In short, all the questions not yet answered in the field of physics would all be answered in a flash if God&#8217;s plane of reality was taken into account.</p>
<p>People might even begin to recognize this mysterious fellow.<br />
See <a href="http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm</a><br />
See <a href="http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode_shroud_turin.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode_shroud_turin.htm</a></p>
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