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	<title>Comments on: What I Believe But Cannot Prove</title>
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	<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/</link>
	<description>books, essays, columns, reviews, and multimedia clips of famed skeptic Michael Shermer</description>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/comment-page-1/#comment-3918</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/#comment-3918</guid>
		<description>History has a &quot;provisional nature&quot; so does ethics and art and others. I do not see how &quot;science is separate from all other human activities due to its belief in the provisional nature of all conclusions.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>History has a &#8220;provisional nature&#8221; so does ethics and art and others. I do not see how &#8220;science is separate from all other human activities due to its belief in the provisional nature of all conclusions.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Gregor Schulte</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/comment-page-1/#comment-2327</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregor Schulte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/#comment-2327</guid>
		<description>Dear Mr. Shermer, Your weakest point is no.2. The starting claim that &quot;scholars of considerable intellectual power for many millennia have failed to resolve the paradox of feeling free in a determined universe&quot; suggests You haven&#039;t read Schopenhauer&#039;s &quot;On the Freedom of the Will&quot; yet. This essay would be a VERY valueable read for You because it resolves exactly the problem (perception vs. knowledge) cited above. 

Read the essay, it is likely to remove No.2 from Your list. (Or You can try to refute it - if You succeed in that task (very unlikely!), please email me how. :-) )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mr. Shermer, Your weakest point is no.2. The starting claim that &#8220;scholars of considerable intellectual power for many millennia have failed to resolve the paradox of feeling free in a determined universe&#8221; suggests You haven&#8217;t read Schopenhauer&#8217;s &#8220;On the Freedom of the Will&#8221; yet. This essay would be a VERY valueable read for You because it resolves exactly the problem (perception vs. knowledge) cited above. </p>
<p>Read the essay, it is likely to remove No.2 from Your list. (Or You can try to refute it &#8211; if You succeed in that task (very unlikely!), please email me how. <img src='http://www.michaelshermer.com/writing/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  )</p>
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		<title>By: drachary</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/comment-page-1/#comment-2243</link>
		<dc:creator>drachary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/#comment-2243</guid>
		<description>People dig to deep on simple matters.  Free will exists.  How did all of you get on here and write your comments.  Of course, the universe has laws that we adhere to (I can&#039;t fly in the air just because I want to). But that doesn&#039;t mean I can&#039;t choose to do what I want within the limits of those laws. It seems a lot of people say we DON&#039;T have free-will beacuse we can&#039;t fly like Peter Pan or we can&#039;t piss out our asses.  People need to get over the obvious(laws of the universe) and think within context!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People dig to deep on simple matters.  Free will exists.  How did all of you get on here and write your comments.  Of course, the universe has laws that we adhere to (I can&#8217;t fly in the air just because I want to). But that doesn&#8217;t mean I can&#8217;t choose to do what I want within the limits of those laws. It seems a lot of people say we DON&#8217;T have free-will beacuse we can&#8217;t fly like Peter Pan or we can&#8217;t piss out our asses.  People need to get over the obvious(laws of the universe) and think within context!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Elessar</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/comment-page-1/#comment-1098</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Elessar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/#comment-1098</guid>
		<description>I have similar thoughts to Mr. Butters&#039;(response #2), but I have different specifc concerns though I agree with his quibble.  I dislike the word belief, mostly because belief as generally used means the acceptance of something without necessarily having any strong evidence for it.  I actually prefer the term &quot;conviction,&quot; unlike Mr. Butters, though I also like &quot;assumption&quot; the way he uses it.  &quot;Conviction&quot; is related to the word &quot;convince,&quot;  and a conviction implies, to me, that there was some degree of evidence behind it...though there can be many degrees of certainty, and even conviction that is truly &quot;beyond a reasonable doubt,&quot; is not the same as the proof of something in absolute principle.  I think most of the things Dr. Shermer says he believes have a fair degree of evidence and reason behind them.  The fact that reality exists outside human and social constructions may not be &quot;in principle&quot; absolutely proven, but if it doesn&#039;t there are a LOT of strange implications and observations that need to be explained...and inductive reasoning suggests that it&#039;s a lot more likely that the Universe was here before we ever happened than the alternative.  For example. I could be hallucinating everything I&#039;ve experienced since the moment I first became conscious, but that would have strong implications about just how good my hallucination machinery is, and would beg the question of just how I came to be there to be hallucinating anything.  

Similarly, though the &quot;Militant Agnostic&quot; bumper sticker IS very funny and makes something of a point, that point is overextended.  Though we may not be able to say with 100% certainty (for instance) that a god doesn&#039;t exist, we can try to estimate the probabilities AND can certainly explore something about what existence or nonexistence would imply about the Universe in which we seem to live, and about the characteristics such a god would seen to have.  This can lead us to some pretty strong conclusions, even if they&#039;re not absolute in the pure mathematical sense.  I can&#039;t say for sure that all the laws of aerodynamics are correct as we know them and I KNOW that our understanding of the laws of fluid dynamics is incomplete in principle, but I&#039;m convinced that--barring mechanical failure--a huge metal craft of a certain common type can carry me through the air at dizzying speeds between two points thousands of miles apart safely and pretty comfortably.  I have many times staked my life and the lives of loved ones on that conviction.  So far so good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have similar thoughts to Mr. Butters&#8217;(response #2), but I have different specifc concerns though I agree with his quibble.  I dislike the word belief, mostly because belief as generally used means the acceptance of something without necessarily having any strong evidence for it.  I actually prefer the term &#8220;conviction,&#8221; unlike Mr. Butters, though I also like &#8220;assumption&#8221; the way he uses it.  &#8220;Conviction&#8221; is related to the word &#8220;convince,&#8221;  and a conviction implies, to me, that there was some degree of evidence behind it&#8230;though there can be many degrees of certainty, and even conviction that is truly &#8220;beyond a reasonable doubt,&#8221; is not the same as the proof of something in absolute principle.  I think most of the things Dr. Shermer says he believes have a fair degree of evidence and reason behind them.  The fact that reality exists outside human and social constructions may not be &#8220;in principle&#8221; absolutely proven, but if it doesn&#8217;t there are a LOT of strange implications and observations that need to be explained&#8230;and inductive reasoning suggests that it&#8217;s a lot more likely that the Universe was here before we ever happened than the alternative.  For example. I could be hallucinating everything I&#8217;ve experienced since the moment I first became conscious, but that would have strong implications about just how good my hallucination machinery is, and would beg the question of just how I came to be there to be hallucinating anything.  </p>
<p>Similarly, though the &#8220;Militant Agnostic&#8221; bumper sticker IS very funny and makes something of a point, that point is overextended.  Though we may not be able to say with 100% certainty (for instance) that a god doesn&#8217;t exist, we can try to estimate the probabilities AND can certainly explore something about what existence or nonexistence would imply about the Universe in which we seem to live, and about the characteristics such a god would seen to have.  This can lead us to some pretty strong conclusions, even if they&#8217;re not absolute in the pure mathematical sense.  I can&#8217;t say for sure that all the laws of aerodynamics are correct as we know them and I KNOW that our understanding of the laws of fluid dynamics is incomplete in principle, but I&#8217;m convinced that&#8211;barring mechanical failure&#8211;a huge metal craft of a certain common type can carry me through the air at dizzying speeds between two points thousands of miles apart safely and pretty comfortably.  I have many times staked my life and the lives of loved ones on that conviction.  So far so good.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/comment-page-1/#comment-1072</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/#comment-1072</guid>
		<description>When the concept of evolution is critically evaluated, one can only marvel at the stupidity of the idea.  It is intellectually absurd.

Do not cloud the argument against evolution with alternatives to the question.  Just evaluate it critically and objectively.  Start with the pre &quot;Big Bang&quot; period.  Where did all that matter come from?  Can atomic particles  evolve?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the concept of evolution is critically evaluated, one can only marvel at the stupidity of the idea.  It is intellectually absurd.</p>
<p>Do not cloud the argument against evolution with alternatives to the question.  Just evaluate it critically and objectively.  Start with the pre &#8220;Big Bang&#8221; period.  Where did all that matter come from?  Can atomic particles  evolve?</p>
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		<title>By: Gareth</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/comment-page-1/#comment-1006</link>
		<dc:creator>Gareth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 21:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/#comment-1006</guid>
		<description>&quot;I believe, but cannot prove, that reality exists independent of its human and social constructions. &quot;

I think you probably can prove it, actually. It brings to mind the famous incident involving Dr Johnson&#039;s and James Boswell leaving a Bishop Berkeley sermon questioning whether matter can be &quot;proven&quot; and Boswell asking Johnson how precisely he can refute Berkeley&#039;s arguments...

Johnson retorted &quot;I refute it thus&quot; and banged his foot against a large rock.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I believe, but cannot prove, that reality exists independent of its human and social constructions. &#8221;</p>
<p>I think you probably can prove it, actually. It brings to mind the famous incident involving Dr Johnson&#8217;s and James Boswell leaving a Bishop Berkeley sermon questioning whether matter can be &#8220;proven&#8221; and Boswell asking Johnson how precisely he can refute Berkeley&#8217;s arguments&#8230;</p>
<p>Johnson retorted &#8220;I refute it thus&#8221; and banged his foot against a large rock.</p>
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		<title>By: John B Hodges</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/comment-page-1/#comment-912</link>
		<dc:creator>John B Hodges</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/#comment-912</guid>
		<description>(JBH) Years ago I decided that the issue of &quot;free will vs. determinism&quot; is irrelevant to questions of ethics, and untestable with respect to matters of science. Since then I have tried to avoid wasting time on it. But it comes up every now and then in Freethinker circles, and many people are lured into arguing at length over it.

Our ordinary practice is to ascribe &quot;free will&quot; to beings which are conscious and intelligent. &quot;Conscious&quot; meaning that they have an internal (&quot;mental&quot;) model of the external world, which they use to anticipate the consequences of different &quot;imagined&quot; courses of action. &quot;Intelligent&quot; meaning that their model is complex and sophisticated, and their imagination likewise, so they can find courses of action that will serve their purposes even in novel situations. &quot;Free will&quot; in such cases means that the great bulk of the IMMEDIATE causes of their actions lie inside their &quot;skin&quot; rather than outside, AND that their actions are not easily or reliably predictable by an outside observer.

This use of the term &quot;free will&quot; does not require denying the hypothesis of &quot;universal causation&quot;, nor does it depend in any way on whether &quot;causation&quot; is always a single-valued function (i.e. whether the same inputs always produce the same output, or whether instead the output may be any of several values with some statistical probability for each.) In other words, this use of the term &quot;free will&quot; is fully compatible with &quot;determinism&quot;. Beings with &quot;minds&quot; sufficiently sophisticated to have &quot;free will&quot; may operate their &quot;minds&quot; deterministically.

We assign &quot;moral responsibility&quot; to beings with &quot;free will&quot;, we assign praise and blame, rewards and punishments, to such beings, because that is the easiest (often the only) way we know to intervene in the causal chain. We want them to behave in one way rather than another, so we initiate some causes that we hope will have the effect of modifying their behavior. We hope they will include in their &quot;mental&quot; model that we will respond to their actions with praise/blame, reward/penalty, and that they will therefore &quot;choose&quot; a different course of action. The hypothesis of &quot;universal causation&quot; is irrelevant to this.

If we gain some ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE of the causal chain affecting their actions, then we may intervene at a different place. For example, if we find that childhood exposure to high levels of lead in the environment leads to neurological damage that results in a lack of ability to control impulses, i.e. their ability to control their own behavior by &quot;rationality&quot; is impaired, then we may seek to reduce crime by banning leaded gasoline, lead-based paint, lead solder in water pipes, and so forth. But this is not the same as &quot;determinism&quot;, considered as a philosophical hypothesis.

&quot;Determinism&quot;, the hypothesis of Universal Causation, says that &quot;all events have causes; there are no uncaused events&quot;. This is a universal claim. The critic may offer as a counterexample some event with no apparent cause. The believer in Determinism will reply &quot;the cause may be unknown at present, but there must be one&quot;. This is not something that can ever be proved or disproved, by any amount of evidence, short of complete examination of the entire Universe throughout all of Time. It is a starting assumption, a working hypothesis. Some have claimed that it is a NECESSARY assumption for the practice of science, but I don&#039;t think so. Science can be practiced perfectly well under the assumption that many/most events have causes.

So: I see no reason to spend one more second debating the question of &quot;free will versus determinism&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(JBH) Years ago I decided that the issue of &#8220;free will vs. determinism&#8221; is irrelevant to questions of ethics, and untestable with respect to matters of science. Since then I have tried to avoid wasting time on it. But it comes up every now and then in Freethinker circles, and many people are lured into arguing at length over it.</p>
<p>Our ordinary practice is to ascribe &#8220;free will&#8221; to beings which are conscious and intelligent. &#8220;Conscious&#8221; meaning that they have an internal (&#8220;mental&#8221;) model of the external world, which they use to anticipate the consequences of different &#8220;imagined&#8221; courses of action. &#8220;Intelligent&#8221; meaning that their model is complex and sophisticated, and their imagination likewise, so they can find courses of action that will serve their purposes even in novel situations. &#8220;Free will&#8221; in such cases means that the great bulk of the IMMEDIATE causes of their actions lie inside their &#8220;skin&#8221; rather than outside, AND that their actions are not easily or reliably predictable by an outside observer.</p>
<p>This use of the term &#8220;free will&#8221; does not require denying the hypothesis of &#8220;universal causation&#8221;, nor does it depend in any way on whether &#8220;causation&#8221; is always a single-valued function (i.e. whether the same inputs always produce the same output, or whether instead the output may be any of several values with some statistical probability for each.) In other words, this use of the term &#8220;free will&#8221; is fully compatible with &#8220;determinism&#8221;. Beings with &#8220;minds&#8221; sufficiently sophisticated to have &#8220;free will&#8221; may operate their &#8220;minds&#8221; deterministically.</p>
<p>We assign &#8220;moral responsibility&#8221; to beings with &#8220;free will&#8221;, we assign praise and blame, rewards and punishments, to such beings, because that is the easiest (often the only) way we know to intervene in the causal chain. We want them to behave in one way rather than another, so we initiate some causes that we hope will have the effect of modifying their behavior. We hope they will include in their &#8220;mental&#8221; model that we will respond to their actions with praise/blame, reward/penalty, and that they will therefore &#8220;choose&#8221; a different course of action. The hypothesis of &#8220;universal causation&#8221; is irrelevant to this.</p>
<p>If we gain some ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE of the causal chain affecting their actions, then we may intervene at a different place. For example, if we find that childhood exposure to high levels of lead in the environment leads to neurological damage that results in a lack of ability to control impulses, i.e. their ability to control their own behavior by &#8220;rationality&#8221; is impaired, then we may seek to reduce crime by banning leaded gasoline, lead-based paint, lead solder in water pipes, and so forth. But this is not the same as &#8220;determinism&#8221;, considered as a philosophical hypothesis.</p>
<p>&#8220;Determinism&#8221;, the hypothesis of Universal Causation, says that &#8220;all events have causes; there are no uncaused events&#8221;. This is a universal claim. The critic may offer as a counterexample some event with no apparent cause. The believer in Determinism will reply &#8220;the cause may be unknown at present, but there must be one&#8221;. This is not something that can ever be proved or disproved, by any amount of evidence, short of complete examination of the entire Universe throughout all of Time. It is a starting assumption, a working hypothesis. Some have claimed that it is a NECESSARY assumption for the practice of science, but I don&#8217;t think so. Science can be practiced perfectly well under the assumption that many/most events have causes.</p>
<p>So: I see no reason to spend one more second debating the question of &#8220;free will versus determinism&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/comment-page-1/#comment-888</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 21:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/#comment-888</guid>
		<description>&quot;Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose&quot;(song lyric), this suggests to me...a basic survival instinct for man to free...of course I may be wrong...but at least I&#039;m free to make the observation! Or am I?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose&#8221;(song lyric), this suggests to me&#8230;a basic survival instinct for man to free&#8230;of course I may be wrong&#8230;but at least I&#8217;m free to make the observation! Or am I?</p>
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		<title>By: David Ferdinand</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/comment-page-1/#comment-884</link>
		<dc:creator>David Ferdinand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:01:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/#comment-884</guid>
		<description>God?- we all simply do not know. 
We exist. The most distant opposite of that: nothing ever existed, did not occur. What the motivating force behind that original choice, conscious or allegorical, was, we do not now know. I feel that admitting to not knowing is more intellectually and spiritually freeing than simply saying that there is no God.

The universe (matter, volume &amp; physical laws), appears to be a vast machine that turns hydrogen into complete sentences.  Whether these sentences are the end product or just another middle stage is yet to be determined.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God?- we all simply do not know.<br />
We exist. The most distant opposite of that: nothing ever existed, did not occur. What the motivating force behind that original choice, conscious or allegorical, was, we do not now know. I feel that admitting to not knowing is more intellectually and spiritually freeing than simply saying that there is no God.</p>
<p>The universe (matter, volume &amp; physical laws), appears to be a vast machine that turns hydrogen into complete sentences.  Whether these sentences are the end product or just another middle stage is yet to be determined.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Castagneri</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/comment-page-1/#comment-880</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Castagneri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2005/06/what-i-believe-but-cannot-prove/#comment-880</guid>
		<description>While I tend to agree with Dr. Shermers&#039; assessment of modern science versus the Divine (or faith perhaps), why is it that such postulates often evoke anger and distrust from the faithful?  Those with alternate &#039;faiths&#039; are often deemed tolerable while those who might be considered complete skeptics are heretics?  Skeptics are an unpopular bunch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I tend to agree with Dr. Shermers&#8217; assessment of modern science versus the Divine (or faith perhaps), why is it that such postulates often evoke anger and distrust from the faithful?  Those with alternate &#8216;faiths&#8217; are often deemed tolerable while those who might be considered complete skeptics are heretics?  Skeptics are an unpopular bunch.</p>
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