It’s funny to read all the comments questioning the existence of Jesus. As far as historical questions go, people forget that the criteria for historical veracity is very different from the criteria for scientific veracity. History looks at one-off events, always unrepeatable in a laboratory. Science demands repeatability. The way to answer a historical question is not to demand empirical proof. Rather, the historian is always making truth claims that go “unproven.” History forces the ultimate skeptic to make truth claims based upon a very different system of “knowing.” Keeping this in mind, only the boldest of skeptics (all of course having their own axe to grind) have even suggested that the existence of Jesus as a myth. Take the Jesus Seminar for example. Here is a group of Bible scholars and historians, most of them being secular or your run-of-the-mill “anti-fundamentalist,” and there is remarkable agreement about the existence of Jesus. In fact, you’ll find even secular historians agree on these points.

1. Jesus existed
2. He was a Jew from Galillee
3. He led some sort of movement and was crucified after going to Jerusalem

Admittedly, these are the most boring conclusions. So to say this helps argue up all the way to orthodox Christianity is ridiculous. My point is, to posit the non-existence of Christianity requires a historical explanation for far more unexplained data. It is a very silly claim, but shows the lengths people go.

I recommend NT Wright for anyone looking for a historian willing to take on board all that data. Obviously, the guy’s a professed Christian and has an opinion. That does not make him any less of a good historian, and anyone reading his work will see the scrutiny he brings to the table.

I never feel at ease when discussing about religion with people, because I simply cannot understand how a normal intelligent adult can believe such -well- stupid stories and the terrible philosophy connected with it.

Even if – and this issue is often pointed at- you believe in (a) God, how can you be sure that your God is the right one? Shouldn’t you be very VERY afraid that you chose the wrong one? Every religion knows of the worst punishments if you believe in a wrong God. So, mathematically speaking, and even taking into account only the 5 major religions, your chance of being right is at most 20 %… not very much for the challenge of infinite happiness or doom. (if we take into account every God that was ever worshipped, your chance diminishes right down close to somewhere zero..)

So if people want to believe that a God, a being so powerful that it can create a whole universe, has nothing else to do than presenting himself in more or less obscure ways to a very selective community in old times, with some illusionist tricks and so on… I say: let them. I have no whatsoever in common with people that do believe such things… it simply is schizophrenic and incomprehensible !

The only thing I strongly would oppose (and fortunately I live in Europe in a, compared to the US, atheistic country) is the way politics would be influenced by religious beliefs. Even though we have many christian parties, even which have the power, no one would openly try to implement a non secular policy in whatsoever field. (They sometimes try doing it through the “back door”, but normally this goes not undetected).

So I can only hope for the US, that the beginning outing of atheists and the more and more intense debates will help it to arrive in the 21st century as soon as possible.

At least you invented the FSM, and I think, as silly as it may sound at first, this is a VERY powerful weapon against religions, because you can do EVERY argument the religious use
with the FSM as well – which shows so strikingly immediately the ridiculousness of all their arguments! )

if i was a Christian, i’d think really hard about the following simple question: is my god the right one?

Fair enough, you may feel it as a truth – and i can respect that.

But what if? When you die, what if you happen to be sent to Buddah instead of good old St Peter? What if it was to be Allah? Bhaal? The Big Spaghetti Monster?

Wouldn’t the “actual” god be vurrry displeased that you worshiped a false god all the time? All religions carry frightening small prints when it comes to worshiping the wrong god.

So, are you sure that you worship the real god?

Another question that would make me vurrry uncomfortable is the following: why is it that most Christians were born from Christian families? I mean, Taoists are probably born in Taoist families, Jews in Jewish families and so on. Few Odin worshipers in Marrakesh, not many Zoroastrians in Madagascar. You see the picture.

So, it looks fairly obvious that one naturally adopts the prevailing religion of their place of birth / residence.

Then: why would all the Chinese be wrong? Is the god of the Indians not as valid a proposition as yours? Half the world population cannot be wrong, can’t they? And they have old books about their messiah and gods too, some of them predating the Bible by a good few centuries.

Bhaal’s not going to like it. Pray i am wrong,

From a historical perspective Jesus also fails to meet the litmus test. Jospheus Antiquities mention of Jesus was latter admitted by Christians to be a forged entry and Pliny the Younger is a more reputable entry however it does date the appearance of Jesus much later and coincides with Luke writing of the Synoptic Gospels.

If the real question of these debates is “Does God Exist”? I always come back to “What evidence is there”? and the answer I always hear is you must have faith.

I have been taught that faith without fact is ignorance.

Personally, I am agnostic (lol @ ‘atheist without balls’, but I would prefer to say ‘an atheist is an agnostic without brains’). I appreciate the devotion to scientific rationality that comes from the skeptical side of the debate, but I am bewildered how this could lead a person to be ‘certain’ that no god exists(certainly something that science has not proved or disproved). My own background is scientific and while I am well aware of the phenomenal progress made in explaining the nature of our world there is still huge parts of the spectrum that remain unknown. The beginning of the universe for example. Even if we reasonably accept a Big Bang, and I personally do, what was before this? Where did the matter come from? Sounds like a reasonable point of entry for the existence of a god. That being said, I don’t know, and nor do you, so until more evidence comes to light I remain open minded.