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	<title>Comments on: Shermer on Larry King Live with the UFOlogists</title>
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	<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2007/07/larry-king-live-ufologists/</link>
	<description>books, essays, columns, reviews, and multimedia clips of famed skeptic Michael Shermer</description>
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		<title>By: Mr. Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2007/07/larry-king-live-ufologists/comment-page-2/#comment-10106</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/?p=860#comment-10106</guid>
		<description>&quot;The famous photos of Maj. Jesse Marcel and Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey with some of the debris show that was they found is entirely consistent with a crashed balloon train (over 600 feet long) from Project Mogul.&quot;  Well if the government wanted to cover something up it makes sense that they could easily concoct a photo like that to prove one thing and disprove another. What that photo shows is not necessarily what crashed. I keep reading here how difficult it would be for the government to keep alien spacecraft and actual aliens secret; that people talk and secrets leaked. Duh! Well that is exactly what has supposedly happened. Insiders have indeed talked and secrets have indeed been leaked..supposedly.  I add that word as I personally don&#039;t have any proof one way or another. What I am saying is that the believers have been reporting for a long time that information has indeed leaked out, lies exposed, and secrets told. Those that mention the difficulty of hiding all this by the government, NASA, or whomever seem to totally ignore this! The cover up has NOT been successful.  All so called evidence is not just anecdotes. To say so is simply not true. The point I am making is that simply dismissing all of this as cosmic woo woo is a terrible insult to all the very intelligent and credible people that do believe.  And these include (gasp!) actual scientists, military personnel, commercial and military pilots, politicians, sincere investigative journalist and more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The famous photos of Maj. Jesse Marcel and Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey with some of the debris show that was they found is entirely consistent with a crashed balloon train (over 600 feet long) from Project Mogul.&#8221;  Well if the government wanted to cover something up it makes sense that they could easily concoct a photo like that to prove one thing and disprove another. What that photo shows is not necessarily what crashed. I keep reading here how difficult it would be for the government to keep alien spacecraft and actual aliens secret; that people talk and secrets leaked. Duh! Well that is exactly what has supposedly happened. Insiders have indeed talked and secrets have indeed been leaked..supposedly.  I add that word as I personally don&#8217;t have any proof one way or another. What I am saying is that the believers have been reporting for a long time that information has indeed leaked out, lies exposed, and secrets told. Those that mention the difficulty of hiding all this by the government, NASA, or whomever seem to totally ignore this! The cover up has NOT been successful.  All so called evidence is not just anecdotes. To say so is simply not true. The point I am making is that simply dismissing all of this as cosmic woo woo is a terrible insult to all the very intelligent and credible people that do believe.  And these include (gasp!) actual scientists, military personnel, commercial and military pilots, politicians, sincere investigative journalist and more.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2007/07/larry-king-live-ufologists/comment-page-2/#comment-10103</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/?p=860#comment-10103</guid>
		<description>I am a big admirer of Mr. Shermer having read three of his book and many issues of Skeptic magazine. There really is a lot of nonsense that is believed by way too many people. A large amount of it fits into the New Age belief category and that of UFOs.  There is a lot of crazy stuff out there regarding UFOs and aliens that people believe without questioning it. The field is full of hoaxes and plain lies. Having said all that I do believe that many UFO cases are indeed credible as is encounters with so called aliens. I don&#039;t agree that there is no evidence. There are way, way too many credible witnesses to dismiss it all as nonsense. It is also understandable to me why governments would want to cover up what they know, and yes they are capable of doing it to a certain degree.  Of course they have not been totally successful at this otherwise all the information we have now would not even be available. As to the UFOs, aliens and where they come from is debatable. Many believe they are  interdimensional as opposed to interstellar. And just because we human beings haven&#039;t figured out how to make traveling billions of light years away doesn&#039;t mean it is impossible. For a long time no one believed such a thing as airplanes and flying around the world would be possible much less human beings travelling to and walking on the moon. The universe (and others which may exist) is a much, much stranger place than any of us could possibly imagine. It is true that anything is possible but at the same time many things are unlikely. And just because they are unlikely does not guarantee they are impossible. I agree with Mr. Shermer on so many things and have great respect for him. I am grateful that people like him exist and are doing what they do. I have always felt the same way about the late great Carl Sagan but this does not mean I don&#039;t disagree with them on certain issues. I obviously do. I am also aware I could be wrong. Honestly, I hope all the stuff about UFOs, alien encounters, abductions, etc. are not true as I find it all way too disturbing! Contact with alien species is not necessarily a totally good thing, or it could be both good and bad considering what the truth is. I am always willing to listen to both sides of the argument whether it be about UFOs or the existence of God. I have no proof that they do or do not exist; just opinions. It is good we have believers and non believers and that many (though not all) are willing to discuss and debate these issues like logical, rational human beings. That I am very grateful for but keep in mind it is very doubtful that we human beings are the crown of creation and have all the answers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a big admirer of Mr. Shermer having read three of his book and many issues of Skeptic magazine. There really is a lot of nonsense that is believed by way too many people. A large amount of it fits into the New Age belief category and that of UFOs.  There is a lot of crazy stuff out there regarding UFOs and aliens that people believe without questioning it. The field is full of hoaxes and plain lies. Having said all that I do believe that many UFO cases are indeed credible as is encounters with so called aliens. I don&#8217;t agree that there is no evidence. There are way, way too many credible witnesses to dismiss it all as nonsense. It is also understandable to me why governments would want to cover up what they know, and yes they are capable of doing it to a certain degree.  Of course they have not been totally successful at this otherwise all the information we have now would not even be available. As to the UFOs, aliens and where they come from is debatable. Many believe they are  interdimensional as opposed to interstellar. And just because we human beings haven&#8217;t figured out how to make traveling billions of light years away doesn&#8217;t mean it is impossible. For a long time no one believed such a thing as airplanes and flying around the world would be possible much less human beings travelling to and walking on the moon. The universe (and others which may exist) is a much, much stranger place than any of us could possibly imagine. It is true that anything is possible but at the same time many things are unlikely. And just because they are unlikely does not guarantee they are impossible. I agree with Mr. Shermer on so many things and have great respect for him. I am grateful that people like him exist and are doing what they do. I have always felt the same way about the late great Carl Sagan but this does not mean I don&#8217;t disagree with them on certain issues. I obviously do. I am also aware I could be wrong. Honestly, I hope all the stuff about UFOs, alien encounters, abductions, etc. are not true as I find it all way too disturbing! Contact with alien species is not necessarily a totally good thing, or it could be both good and bad considering what the truth is. I am always willing to listen to both sides of the argument whether it be about UFOs or the existence of God. I have no proof that they do or do not exist; just opinions. It is good we have believers and non believers and that many (though not all) are willing to discuss and debate these issues like logical, rational human beings. That I am very grateful for but keep in mind it is very doubtful that we human beings are the crown of creation and have all the answers.</p>
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		<title>By: btothetwizzle</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2007/07/larry-king-live-ufologists/comment-page-2/#comment-4259</link>
		<dc:creator>btothetwizzle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 23:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/?p=860#comment-4259</guid>
		<description>The majority of photos are inevitably going to be grainy because if you spot a UFO, take out your cellular phone or any type of camera to point at it at a large sky to catch something so far in the distance, 9/10 it&#039;s not going to look like a crystal clear Hollywood type photo/video worthy enough to get co-signed by a hardcore Skeptic.

 Another main argument for skeptics on this subject is that what was seen could have been &#039;x&#039;, but what if &#039;x&#039; has limitations or qualities that what was seen definitely does not? It should go without saying, but that would rule out &#039;x&#039; as the object that was seen. With a large portion of UFO cases, you can repeat this process until the object could only be identified as either: a) A government craft with technology that the general public is not aware of yet, or b) A craft not from this world controlled by &#039;y&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The majority of photos are inevitably going to be grainy because if you spot a UFO, take out your cellular phone or any type of camera to point at it at a large sky to catch something so far in the distance, 9/10 it&#8217;s not going to look like a crystal clear Hollywood type photo/video worthy enough to get co-signed by a hardcore Skeptic.</p>
<p> Another main argument for skeptics on this subject is that what was seen could have been &#8216;x&#8217;, but what if &#8216;x&#8217; has limitations or qualities that what was seen definitely does not? It should go without saying, but that would rule out &#8216;x&#8217; as the object that was seen. With a large portion of UFO cases, you can repeat this process until the object could only be identified as either: a) A government craft with technology that the general public is not aware of yet, or b) A craft not from this world controlled by &#8216;y&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Dee</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2007/07/larry-king-live-ufologists/comment-page-2/#comment-3806</link>
		<dc:creator>Dee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/?p=860#comment-3806</guid>
		<description>@Jeremy - Thank you - a very sound, logical (albeit still somewhat anecdotal to be fair) assessment of the &quot;government conspiracy&quot; aspects of alleged UFO Cover-ups. It is one of the more balanced perspectives that I&#039;ve read on the topic...

Now for my personal ramble...

I think if a person remains truly unbiased - neither science, or religion or so-called &quot;pseudoscience&quot; for that matter, has an answer to the question of aliens or non-terrestrial (or perhaps terrestrial, but non traditionally understood) forms of life.  No matter how vehemently you argue EITHER side of this debate, the simple fact is the &quot;unknown&quot; remains unknown until it becomes known.  I&#039;m not trying to be cute either - really think about that for a moment.

However, I do not object to hearing varying arguments for either side, nor do I reject hard evidence, to the best of my own understanding when presented (sorry, 2+2 will always equal 4, not lemon).  It seems to me the heart of this issue, like so many today, is that one side MUST be right when neither side of the debate can lay claim to having evidence and or knowledge that specifically answers the question.  Right now, all we do know is that the majority of our determination on the topic of extraterrestrial life comes from the sheer LACK of empirical evidence that it does exist, based on our current abilities and understandings.  Period.

An athlete will tell you the world is best served by exercise and general focus on the physicality of fitness.  A doctor will tell you that the answers to life&#039;s dilemmas lie primarily in balanced eating, exercise and regular &quot;maintenance&quot; (checkups,etc.)... Academics will offer the perspective that a healthy life without the benefit of a good knowledge base (education) is no life at all and therein lie the solutions to the world&#039;s problems... Scientists will favor an emphasis on evidence and reverse engineering (which is largely what all scientific discoveries are based on) for their take on the &quot;meaning of life&quot; stuff.  And of course, religion or spiritual experts will tell you that a focus on things of the soul/spirit or faith in things not measured by the others mentioned, is the only solution to the terrible evils we foist on one another.

I think we have only to raise our heads up a bit, look around to realize we are simply infants in a billions of years old (to our current understanding) universe, and it is likely that there are MANY puzzles out there that don&#039;t have &quot;answers&quot; that we understand yet.  So I tend to land in this camp:

I do believe that sentient, or self-aware, life exists outside of our current species and outside of our current understanding.  IN fact, everything we&#039;ve learned thus far, infants that we are, indicates this is highly likely.  Whether it comes from what we call the stars or universe, or whether it comes from new understandings of the states of existence and life itself is pretty much wide open...

And sorry - science is just ONE aspect of our understanding. Be of good cheer people - there&#039;s LOTS and LOTS more to discover out there yet and standing on one side of line and holding our breath or yelling really loud in an attempt to force the person on the other side of that line we&#039;re right and have THE TRUTH for everyone just don&#039;t work yet.  Hasn&#039;t worked for as long as we&#039;ve existed as a matter of fact.  But yet we keep doing it - go figure.

Maybe its okay that some people believe in little gray aliens (or Nordic-like ones, or the brain-sucking ones, or the shimmering light ones) and its okay that some don&#039;t.  

Ironically, to me, scientists are no different than religious leaders.  In religion you have those who are &quot;called&quot; to be our spiritual leaders - and unlike the rest of us poor schmucks, have something special about them (they claim directly and divinely given to them by a particular god or spirit or whatever) to help enlighten the rest of us and &quot;save us from&quot; *shudder* ourselves.

Science is the same - apparently these guys have access to &quot;knowledge&quot; (i.e. their overinflated estimation of their particular brand of &#039;intelligence&#039;) that the rest of us poor, ignorant, dark-age living saps don&#039;t, and it is their job, particularly those in the role of skeptic, to help inform, elucidate and rebuke those of us who are really &#039;nice, simple, folk&#039; but just don&#039;t &quot;get it&quot;.  (And they often do it with a very condescending, but well-intentioned pat on the head ta boot!) 

Frankly, I&#039;ll take my chances with a willingness to understand that science, academics, physicality and spirituality all play a pretty important role in my day to day life and that while we&#039;re all seemingly interdependent, I can think for myself and my OWN experiences and archaeology (past) coupled with new adventures will define who I am.  Right or wrong is completely subjective, beyond our instinctive desire to continue to exist individually and as a species.  And if I chose to believe in the possibility of aliens or insist that they are are just the figments of a deluded imagination, I&#039;ll still continue to eat, breath, poop and pee and I&#039;ll still die.

Btw, can someone name just ONE discovery from the annals of science that has actually benefited humanity as a whole (benefited as in with only good stuff without an equalizing number of side-affects or resulting causalities to mitigate the &#039;benefit&#039; and that drastically changes the resulting equation that has existed as long as our species has: born &gt; live &gt; die)?  JUST ONE with empirical evidence please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jeremy &#8211; Thank you &#8211; a very sound, logical (albeit still somewhat anecdotal to be fair) assessment of the &#8220;government conspiracy&#8221; aspects of alleged UFO Cover-ups. It is one of the more balanced perspectives that I&#8217;ve read on the topic&#8230;</p>
<p>Now for my personal ramble&#8230;</p>
<p>I think if a person remains truly unbiased &#8211; neither science, or religion or so-called &#8220;pseudoscience&#8221; for that matter, has an answer to the question of aliens or non-terrestrial (or perhaps terrestrial, but non traditionally understood) forms of life.  No matter how vehemently you argue EITHER side of this debate, the simple fact is the &#8220;unknown&#8221; remains unknown until it becomes known.  I&#8217;m not trying to be cute either &#8211; really think about that for a moment.</p>
<p>However, I do not object to hearing varying arguments for either side, nor do I reject hard evidence, to the best of my own understanding when presented (sorry, 2+2 will always equal 4, not lemon).  It seems to me the heart of this issue, like so many today, is that one side MUST be right when neither side of the debate can lay claim to having evidence and or knowledge that specifically answers the question.  Right now, all we do know is that the majority of our determination on the topic of extraterrestrial life comes from the sheer LACK of empirical evidence that it does exist, based on our current abilities and understandings.  Period.</p>
<p>An athlete will tell you the world is best served by exercise and general focus on the physicality of fitness.  A doctor will tell you that the answers to life&#8217;s dilemmas lie primarily in balanced eating, exercise and regular &#8220;maintenance&#8221; (checkups,etc.)&#8230; Academics will offer the perspective that a healthy life without the benefit of a good knowledge base (education) is no life at all and therein lie the solutions to the world&#8217;s problems&#8230; Scientists will favor an emphasis on evidence and reverse engineering (which is largely what all scientific discoveries are based on) for their take on the &#8220;meaning of life&#8221; stuff.  And of course, religion or spiritual experts will tell you that a focus on things of the soul/spirit or faith in things not measured by the others mentioned, is the only solution to the terrible evils we foist on one another.</p>
<p>I think we have only to raise our heads up a bit, look around to realize we are simply infants in a billions of years old (to our current understanding) universe, and it is likely that there are MANY puzzles out there that don&#8217;t have &#8220;answers&#8221; that we understand yet.  So I tend to land in this camp:</p>
<p>I do believe that sentient, or self-aware, life exists outside of our current species and outside of our current understanding.  IN fact, everything we&#8217;ve learned thus far, infants that we are, indicates this is highly likely.  Whether it comes from what we call the stars or universe, or whether it comes from new understandings of the states of existence and life itself is pretty much wide open&#8230;</p>
<p>And sorry &#8211; science is just ONE aspect of our understanding. Be of good cheer people &#8211; there&#8217;s LOTS and LOTS more to discover out there yet and standing on one side of line and holding our breath or yelling really loud in an attempt to force the person on the other side of that line we&#8217;re right and have THE TRUTH for everyone just don&#8217;t work yet.  Hasn&#8217;t worked for as long as we&#8217;ve existed as a matter of fact.  But yet we keep doing it &#8211; go figure.</p>
<p>Maybe its okay that some people believe in little gray aliens (or Nordic-like ones, or the brain-sucking ones, or the shimmering light ones) and its okay that some don&#8217;t.  </p>
<p>Ironically, to me, scientists are no different than religious leaders.  In religion you have those who are &#8220;called&#8221; to be our spiritual leaders &#8211; and unlike the rest of us poor schmucks, have something special about them (they claim directly and divinely given to them by a particular god or spirit or whatever) to help enlighten the rest of us and &#8220;save us from&#8221; *shudder* ourselves.</p>
<p>Science is the same &#8211; apparently these guys have access to &#8220;knowledge&#8221; (i.e. their overinflated estimation of their particular brand of &#8216;intelligence&#8217;) that the rest of us poor, ignorant, dark-age living saps don&#8217;t, and it is their job, particularly those in the role of skeptic, to help inform, elucidate and rebuke those of us who are really &#8216;nice, simple, folk&#8217; but just don&#8217;t &#8220;get it&#8221;.  (And they often do it with a very condescending, but well-intentioned pat on the head ta boot!) </p>
<p>Frankly, I&#8217;ll take my chances with a willingness to understand that science, academics, physicality and spirituality all play a pretty important role in my day to day life and that while we&#8217;re all seemingly interdependent, I can think for myself and my OWN experiences and archaeology (past) coupled with new adventures will define who I am.  Right or wrong is completely subjective, beyond our instinctive desire to continue to exist individually and as a species.  And if I chose to believe in the possibility of aliens or insist that they are are just the figments of a deluded imagination, I&#8217;ll still continue to eat, breath, poop and pee and I&#8217;ll still die.</p>
<p>Btw, can someone name just ONE discovery from the annals of science that has actually benefited humanity as a whole (benefited as in with only good stuff without an equalizing number of side-affects or resulting causalities to mitigate the &#8216;benefit&#8217; and that drastically changes the resulting equation that has existed as long as our species has: born &gt; live &gt; die)?  JUST ONE with empirical evidence please.</p>
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		<title>By: James Pettit</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2007/07/larry-king-live-ufologists/comment-page-2/#comment-3796</link>
		<dc:creator>James Pettit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 22:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/?p=860#comment-3796</guid>
		<description>This comment is addressed to all those who have voiced their reactions to the Larry King episode on UFOs.

If you are genuinely interested in this issue, then I recommend that you read Richard Dolan&#039;s book, &quot;UFOs and the National Security State&quot;.

Of the many books on UFOs which I have read, this one is by far the most scholarly and serious in tone.  I only wish that Skeptic magazine would see fit to review it (pardon me if the magazine has already done so).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This comment is addressed to all those who have voiced their reactions to the Larry King episode on UFOs.</p>
<p>If you are genuinely interested in this issue, then I recommend that you read Richard Dolan&#8217;s book, &#8220;UFOs and the National Security State&#8221;.</p>
<p>Of the many books on UFOs which I have read, this one is by far the most scholarly and serious in tone.  I only wish that Skeptic magazine would see fit to review it (pardon me if the magazine has already done so).</p>
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		<title>By: Alison R.</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2007/07/larry-king-live-ufologists/comment-page-2/#comment-3786</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 20:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/?p=860#comment-3786</guid>
		<description>Rutgersjaffo wrote, &quot;Look, I am not saying I believe every single person who claims to have seen a UFO, but they aren’t ALL lying or mistaken.&quot;

There were over 1,000 sightings recorded last year in Canada, over 400 so far this year in Britain. And the U.S.? Over 5,000 resorts. That&#039;s just three countries representing one single year. Many of these people witnessed a sighting from different times during the calendar year, which implies different UFOs. So even if only half were to believed, it would appear we are being inundated with different alien crafts hundreds of times a year....each and every single year. The credibility is shot here. Logic would imply that the vast majority (or more likely, everyone) are mistaken. Reason would be that even if an extra-terrestrial society could overcome the physics of such a visit, it would be a rare occurrence, not something reported multiple times around the world, every single day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rutgersjaffo wrote, &#8220;Look, I am not saying I believe every single person who claims to have seen a UFO, but they aren’t ALL lying or mistaken.&#8221;</p>
<p>There were over 1,000 sightings recorded last year in Canada, over 400 so far this year in Britain. And the U.S.? Over 5,000 resorts. That&#8217;s just three countries representing one single year. Many of these people witnessed a sighting from different times during the calendar year, which implies different UFOs. So even if only half were to believed, it would appear we are being inundated with different alien crafts hundreds of times a year&#8230;.each and every single year. The credibility is shot here. Logic would imply that the vast majority (or more likely, everyone) are mistaken. Reason would be that even if an extra-terrestrial society could overcome the physics of such a visit, it would be a rare occurrence, not something reported multiple times around the world, every single day.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2007/07/larry-king-live-ufologists/comment-page-2/#comment-3514</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/?p=860#comment-3514</guid>
		<description>I thought Michael did a good job, considering the restraints of the show format. I reject the notion that he &quot;laughs off&quot; or otherwise dismisses UFO claims - he consistently and emphatically emphasized the requirements of science in terms of evidence. As he said repeatedly, witness accounts etc are good starting points, but cannot be used to come to a conclusion. Physical evidence is what is required. Many of the guests cite unusual and difficult-to-explain occurrences. But on what basis can any conclusion be made? We can&#039;t assume &quot;aliens&quot; when we have yet to establish they even exist! Michael says we need something physical to come to a conclusion. But after 62 years of sightings and claims, not a single piece of physical evidence, whether in the form of a piece of a spacecraft or an alien corpse, has been produced as confirmation of an alien visitation.

And, instead of simply &quot;brushing off&quot; claims he doesn&#039;t believe in, he asks a basic question, one that the UFO proponents never satisfactorily answer: Why would governments hide knowledge of such visitations? It is a given - and Michael says this - that government lie. But why lie about this?

People like Stanton like to cite some possible reasons here, but one presumption almost always comes forward, and that is the &quot;government&quot; is the AMERICAN government, as if aliens have a focus on America as being the only &quot;government&quot; around. Which is more than a little weird. But even if we assume that the American government has some compelling reason to hide this knowledge and lie about it, which is certainly within the range of possibility (and something nearly impossible to disprove thus guaranteeing the perpetuity of the debate until an actual alien is produced), why would aliens landing in, say, Warsaw or Santiago be subject to the same obsessive government secrecy as the presumed aliens who landed in Roswell or elsewhere in America? In other words, the whole premise that &quot;government&quot; would want to hide knowledge of confirmed alien contact is that EVERY government on the planet where aliens might have landed would have identical incentives to hide this fact. I personally find that hard to believe. Given the fact that places like Roswell have bent over backwards to promote their alien &quot;connection,&quot; one can just imagine some town or state or country leaping at the chance to cash in on tourism to see the alien artifacts. But that hasn&#039;t happened, has it?

Further, the Fermi paradox asks the question: If aliens are out there, why haven&#039;t they visited? While those like Stanton say they have visited, these &quot;visits&quot; are always by aliens who have some presumed incentive to remain hidden. But why? If we are to presume some sort of Star Trek-style &quot;Prime Directive&quot; on non-interference in cultures, why are we only being visited (to extend the Star Trek analogy) by peaceful non-intrusive Vulcans and not warring, expansionist Klingons or Romulans? And this isn&#039;t just in the present time, but over the perhaps BILLION years advanced civilizations may have existed in our galaxy (given what we know about stellar evolution and the time needed for civilizations to expand through the galaxy with slightly advanced technology, several million years)? Yet we have no sign of any alien artifacts, nor any sign that life on this planet is nothing but indigenous.

In the end, it is not that Michael is being some sort of curmudgeon by demanding physical evidence. He is simply requesting some sort of evidence which would establish as fact one of the great mysteries of our time - whether we are alone in the universe - and to acknowledge that such proof would mark one of the great watersheds in our history.

Which is why we need a LOT more than we are getting from people talking about sticks with hieroglyphics and unidentified objects in the skies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought Michael did a good job, considering the restraints of the show format. I reject the notion that he &#8220;laughs off&#8221; or otherwise dismisses UFO claims &#8211; he consistently and emphatically emphasized the requirements of science in terms of evidence. As he said repeatedly, witness accounts etc are good starting points, but cannot be used to come to a conclusion. Physical evidence is what is required. Many of the guests cite unusual and difficult-to-explain occurrences. But on what basis can any conclusion be made? We can&#8217;t assume &#8220;aliens&#8221; when we have yet to establish they even exist! Michael says we need something physical to come to a conclusion. But after 62 years of sightings and claims, not a single piece of physical evidence, whether in the form of a piece of a spacecraft or an alien corpse, has been produced as confirmation of an alien visitation.</p>
<p>And, instead of simply &#8220;brushing off&#8221; claims he doesn&#8217;t believe in, he asks a basic question, one that the UFO proponents never satisfactorily answer: Why would governments hide knowledge of such visitations? It is a given &#8211; and Michael says this &#8211; that government lie. But why lie about this?</p>
<p>People like Stanton like to cite some possible reasons here, but one presumption almost always comes forward, and that is the &#8220;government&#8221; is the AMERICAN government, as if aliens have a focus on America as being the only &#8220;government&#8221; around. Which is more than a little weird. But even if we assume that the American government has some compelling reason to hide this knowledge and lie about it, which is certainly within the range of possibility (and something nearly impossible to disprove thus guaranteeing the perpetuity of the debate until an actual alien is produced), why would aliens landing in, say, Warsaw or Santiago be subject to the same obsessive government secrecy as the presumed aliens who landed in Roswell or elsewhere in America? In other words, the whole premise that &#8220;government&#8221; would want to hide knowledge of confirmed alien contact is that EVERY government on the planet where aliens might have landed would have identical incentives to hide this fact. I personally find that hard to believe. Given the fact that places like Roswell have bent over backwards to promote their alien &#8220;connection,&#8221; one can just imagine some town or state or country leaping at the chance to cash in on tourism to see the alien artifacts. But that hasn&#8217;t happened, has it?</p>
<p>Further, the Fermi paradox asks the question: If aliens are out there, why haven&#8217;t they visited? While those like Stanton say they have visited, these &#8220;visits&#8221; are always by aliens who have some presumed incentive to remain hidden. But why? If we are to presume some sort of Star Trek-style &#8220;Prime Directive&#8221; on non-interference in cultures, why are we only being visited (to extend the Star Trek analogy) by peaceful non-intrusive Vulcans and not warring, expansionist Klingons or Romulans? And this isn&#8217;t just in the present time, but over the perhaps BILLION years advanced civilizations may have existed in our galaxy (given what we know about stellar evolution and the time needed for civilizations to expand through the galaxy with slightly advanced technology, several million years)? Yet we have no sign of any alien artifacts, nor any sign that life on this planet is nothing but indigenous.</p>
<p>In the end, it is not that Michael is being some sort of curmudgeon by demanding physical evidence. He is simply requesting some sort of evidence which would establish as fact one of the great mysteries of our time &#8211; whether we are alone in the universe &#8211; and to acknowledge that such proof would mark one of the great watersheds in our history.</p>
<p>Which is why we need a LOT more than we are getting from people talking about sticks with hieroglyphics and unidentified objects in the skies.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2007/07/larry-king-live-ufologists/comment-page-2/#comment-3464</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/?p=860#comment-3464</guid>
		<description>I really enjoyed Buzz Aldrin&#039;s contribution to this discussion. I admit to listening to C2C because it&#039;s usually interesting what people believe in and why.
However, I have always been skeptical for the very reasons that Buzz pointed out. 
I like Shermer&#039;s demeanor and approach to dealing with the true believers. Many skeptics are so condescending and cynical that it ruins these discussions. Call it the softer side of skepticism, a term borrowed from the Truth-driven Thinking podcast. 
I am very impressed with Michael Shermer. Glad this video is available on the site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really enjoyed Buzz Aldrin&#8217;s contribution to this discussion. I admit to listening to C2C because it&#8217;s usually interesting what people believe in and why.<br />
However, I have always been skeptical for the very reasons that Buzz pointed out.<br />
I like Shermer&#8217;s demeanor and approach to dealing with the true believers. Many skeptics are so condescending and cynical that it ruins these discussions. Call it the softer side of skepticism, a term borrowed from the Truth-driven Thinking podcast.<br />
I am very impressed with Michael Shermer. Glad this video is available on the site.</p>
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		<title>By: Arnold Klein</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2007/07/larry-king-live-ufologists/comment-page-2/#comment-3422</link>
		<dc:creator>Arnold Klein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:41:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/?p=860#comment-3422</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if anyone has ever been to the UFO Museum in Roswell.  But I will share my experience.  I thought Roswell would be a quaint little town with a gas station and a museum... okay, maybe it would have a restaurant.  

Roswell New Mexico is a town of 50,000 and is the Mozzorella Cheese Capital of the world.

If you really want proof that Roswell has never been visited by Aliens simply go to the Museum.  Depending on the High School you went to, it is either one step up or one step below your typical high school science fair.  I suspect the technology on display at most of today&#039;s high schools is 10 times better than what you will find in the museum.  One step into that edifice convinced me that we certainly have no evidence that aliens visited Roswell and if that is the best evidence for all UFO explanations there probably has any Aliens visitors to our planet.

On another note.  Roswell does have a great Art Museum that has a recreation of Robert Goddard&#039;s laboratory with actual instruments and models of rockets he used in his tests.  It is a shame that this worthwhile part of Roswell gets buried in the basement of a museum while the tourists flock to the UFO Museum on main street.  A bit ironic that so much science lies in the basement of a museum and the UFO stuff lies in a barely refurbished old movie theatre.  Wait a minute.  Maybe it is not ironic but fitting... in a sort of 1950&#039;s horror movie sort of way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if anyone has ever been to the UFO Museum in Roswell.  But I will share my experience.  I thought Roswell would be a quaint little town with a gas station and a museum&#8230; okay, maybe it would have a restaurant.  </p>
<p>Roswell New Mexico is a town of 50,000 and is the Mozzorella Cheese Capital of the world.</p>
<p>If you really want proof that Roswell has never been visited by Aliens simply go to the Museum.  Depending on the High School you went to, it is either one step up or one step below your typical high school science fair.  I suspect the technology on display at most of today&#8217;s high schools is 10 times better than what you will find in the museum.  One step into that edifice convinced me that we certainly have no evidence that aliens visited Roswell and if that is the best evidence for all UFO explanations there probably has any Aliens visitors to our planet.</p>
<p>On another note.  Roswell does have a great Art Museum that has a recreation of Robert Goddard&#8217;s laboratory with actual instruments and models of rockets he used in his tests.  It is a shame that this worthwhile part of Roswell gets buried in the basement of a museum while the tourists flock to the UFO Museum on main street.  A bit ironic that so much science lies in the basement of a museum and the UFO stuff lies in a barely refurbished old movie theatre.  Wait a minute.  Maybe it is not ironic but fitting&#8230; in a sort of 1950&#8242;s horror movie sort of way.</p>
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		<title>By: micahd</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelshermer.com/2007/07/larry-king-live-ufologists/comment-page-2/#comment-3410</link>
		<dc:creator>micahd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 06:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelshermer.com/?p=860#comment-3410</guid>
		<description>notice how the ufologists consistently try to force a false dilemma:  either the stories are true or the eyewitnesses are lying.  they completely leave out the possibility that the eyewitnesses are mistaken due to things like confirmation bias, expectation effects, and a host of other well understood psychological phenomena.  once you recognize that the psychological research has well established the fact that humans are very poor observers, you weaken the case for such radical claims.  but ufologists and other pseudoscientists who understand next to nothing of the psychological research and scientific method completely fail to understand this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>notice how the ufologists consistently try to force a false dilemma:  either the stories are true or the eyewitnesses are lying.  they completely leave out the possibility that the eyewitnesses are mistaken due to things like confirmation bias, expectation effects, and a host of other well understood psychological phenomena.  once you recognize that the psychological research has well established the fact that humans are very poor observers, you weaken the case for such radical claims.  but ufologists and other pseudoscientists who understand next to nothing of the psychological research and scientific method completely fail to understand this.</p>
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